Curse

BigDave · Dec 12, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Just done the Nec Traversal/Rebirth bonus method with an all hero/henchie group and, somehow the henchmen joined me on the other side where the generals are. Truth be told i didn't even notice they were with me until after i'd killed the 3 generals but they definitely weren't there when i started to move for the first general. I don't know at what point they joined me, and i certainly didn't (can't) rebirth them across the gap.

I had a good look around the area to see if there was anywhere they might have run through (impossible i know but i tried anyway).

Any ideas how they did it? Or is it just a bug?

Screenshot link attached showing the drawbridge up, with the entire team ont the other side of the gap. Mission map shows i've killed the bosses (note 8% morale boost to Dunkoro) and looked all over the place.

http://www.geocities.com/king_mould/Dunes.jpg

Sir Mad · Dec 12, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I have the strong feeling this is a fake.

To the players who don't know: there is a way to take player/henchies to the other side even when they can't commit suide, provided you have a char with both rebirth and necrotic traversal (and the monk of the OP does). It's simple: use necrotic traversal as usually, then walk on the right side of the fort to the part on the left of the bridge from where you enter the fort (the U map shows the OP followed this path). There it's possible to lure scarabs to kill the char, and rebirth them on the other side after. Seeing only the monk has a moral boost, the other chars had DP before the bonus, and I'd bet it's because of the scarab trick I've just described.

Sorry to the OP if it's really a bug, but considering how I never heard about such a thing before, and how there is a tricky way to do that, I think I can be suspicious.

Eagle Manix · Dec 12, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

No this really does happen, doesnt happen every time - you can force this by handing out vampiric weapons to the whole party as well i have my hero N/Mo rebirth them after he nec transverses, never had the pets jump across though.

I have also had it happen in the great northern wall. Rebirthed myself onto the bridge and as i was running back the whole team ran up the side of the bridge and followed me.....

Ranger pet and also hero pets after getting stuck and being a very long way back off-screen can sometimes spontaneously appear.

A bug, but a nice one.

BigDave · Dec 12, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I used signet of agony to kill the heroes (not the monk) and a vamp weapon to kill myself. As soon as we were all across i went straight for the generals. The 2 henchies were definitely not rebirthed across because i'd sent them away so they didn't resurrect my heroes and me when we died. It definitely isn't a fake. The lines on the mini map are me trying to find out where they'd come over from.

Just wondering how they got there.

Sister Brianne · Dec 12, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Or you could just walk across the bridge Indiana Jones style!

My guess is that the OP Necrotic'd across the gap not realizing that his henchies just waltzed over the bridge to meet him.

*At least I think that it is possible*

LicensedLuny · Dec 12, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

@Sir Mad

The trick you describe sounds really interesting, especially if it can get even the henchies across. I can't follow exactly what you mean to do, though.

Is there a more detailed description/instructions anywhere? Please?

@Sister Brianne

Well, I haven't tested this in a few months, but I'm positive this was all correct before.

Those bridges in the main fort don't come down until you put the ghost on the shrine and let him start his ... whatever that skill is, claim resource? Doing so also starts the 10 minute clock and the sequence of forgotten waves that come to the center and kill the ghost (which insta-fails the mission) if someone isn't there to protect him or fight them off.

All the jump the wall tricks are about not letting the ghost start his shrine lovin', so your team (or part of it) can get to the area south of the fort to kill the bonus bosses and/or uncover the map out there without the worries of ghost protection and a timer.

The southern map out there does have two other forts with raised bridges that you can't lower but can walk across anyway, but you can't walk across any of the three between the shrine fort and the southern areas until they come down.

Walking on air over the raised ones looks awesome, though.

Luny

Sir Mad · Dec 14, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

@Sir Mad

The trick you describe sounds really interesting, especially if it can get even the henchies across. I can't follow exactly what you mean to do, though.

Is there a more detailed description/instructions anywhere? Please?

I don't think there's a detailed guide about that but i'm going to secribe it better. I used this trick only one time actually, and that was a long time ago so I hope I remember it well. I learnt this trick from a Mo/N who was organizing bonus parties there, before NF (no hero then, which means unless you were a monk or a necro you had to solo the bonus or join a PuG).

First, you need a Mo/N or a N/Mo with both Necrotic Traversal and Rebirth.

Start the mission as usually, kill everything till you trigger the cut scene before the fort. At this point you should be in front of the entrance of the fort. If you go to the right side (don't go there yet! That's just a if

) your way be soon blocked by some kind of dune, here (black line on the map - don't pay attention to the other paths shown, I've stolen the map from guildwiki):

But for the moment, stay on the bridge, and kill the mobs coming. As usually, don't kill the hero. Now follow the green path on the map and go to the southern path of the citadel. With a longbow, lure the mob on the other side (or one of the many scarabs poping up around) - sometimes it's not possible so you may have to give it a few tries but generally it's ok. When you've killed one, the Mo/N or N/Mo should use Necrotic Traversal to go to the other side.

Now the whole team should go back to the entrace, and one by one approach the dune I was talking about. The Necrotic/Rebirth char you follow the red path and he will be on the other side of the dune. Scarabs are going to pop up and the degen will quickly kill each member (of course they should go one by one and let the scarab kill them). When everybody is dead, the Necrotic/Rebirth char advance and rebirth the players - they'll be on the other side (it's better to kill the scarab 1st though).

EDIT - Of course it's a bit harder if you go with henchies only as they can't go one by one, not be set on avoid combat: in this case just play with flags, and keep reflagging them at the same place so they'll keep moving instead of fighting.

Burst Cancel · Dec 14, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I had a similar experience in the Frost Gate mission. I teleported to Rurik's path using a corpse under the bridge in the cave, and then began mapping for my cartography title. A short distance from the cave, Goren suddenly appeared right next to me. After I teleported back to the main path to complete the mission, Goren was still stuck on Rurik's path, but I tried setting the waypoint flag in various locations on the main path near him to see if he could get back up, and he eventually did.

Unless something was changed, there is no physical path from the main mission path and Rurik's path (hence the need for the teleportation trick), so it should be impossible for heroes to move between the two.

LicensedLuny · Dec 14, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Now the whole team should go back to the entrace, and one by one approach the dune I was talking about. The Necrotic/Rebirth char you follow the red path and he will be on the other side of the dune. Scarabs are going to pop up and the degen will quickly kill each member (of course they should go one by one and let the scarab kill them). When everybody is dead, the Necrotic/Rebirth char advance and rebirth the players - they'll be on the other side (it's better to kill the scarab 1st though).

EDIT - Of course it's a bit harder if you go with henchies only as they can't go one by one, not be set on avoid combat: in this case just play with flags, and keep reflagging them at the same place so they'll keep moving instead of fighting.

Ah! Very interesting. I'd never heard of or tried this part before. How does the Mo/N out there avoid scarabs killing him while he rebirths ... if the scarabs are already there to have killed your whole team? Can he/she avoid them, or do they have to have protections set up ahead of time until the first couple party members (henchies, I assume) get over to help fight?

Thanks much for sharing!
Luny

Sir Mad · Dec 14, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

Ah! Very interesting. I'd never heard of or tried this part before. How does the Mo/N out there avoid scarabs killing him while he rebirths ... if the scarabs are already there to have killed your whole team? Can he/she avoid them, or do they have to have protections set up ahead of time until the first couple party members (henchies, I assume) get over to help fight?

Thanks much for sharing!
Luny

Generally scarabs don't stay at the same place, so it should start wandering around once the players have been killed and the monk/necro should be able not to aggro it (unless the AI change messed up with that). Otherwise a bit of smiting or necro skills should do the job. I don't think a scarab can kill a lvl 20 necro or monk in 8 secs so there's probably enough time to cast rebirth but it's still dangerous as the reborn char woul have only 25% health and his skill disabled, and the rezzer would be dry. Another alternative if the new AI make impossible not to aggro the scarab to rez even if it's miles away, and if you have NF, would be to bring a sunspear rebirth sig to rez a warrior hero for example and quickly kill the scarab safely (but you still need rebirth for the other chars).

drupal · Dec 17, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

The southern map out there does have two other forts with raised bridges that you can't lower but can walk across anyway, but you can't walk across any of the three between the shrine fort and the southern areas until they come down.

How is it then possible to uncover this part? I need the western fort to get my 100%. I'll try with heroes soon.

Hobbs · Dec 17, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

I can vouch for this bug, just happened to me

Sir Mad · Dec 17, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by drupal

How is it then possible to uncover this part? I need the western fort to get my 100%. I'll try with heroes soon.

There is only one fort you need to explore (the SW fort - number 2 on the map posted) and as Licensed said, even if the bridge is up you can still walk in. You don't need to explore the SE fort (number 3 on the map) as you can explore all around and uncover the area from outside. I think the 3 bridges you can't walk through he's talking about are the 3 bridges of the central fort (where you must defend the ghostly hero), and indeed you need Necrotic Traversal to go beyond.

PS: To the OP, sorry for doubting

LicensedLuny · Dec 17, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

First, I think Sir Mad means SE fort is number 3 and SW fort is number 2. (I could be wrong - I make left/right and east/west mistakes a lot.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

There is only one fort you need to explore (the SE fort - number 2 on the map posted)

Well, you do get *some* map from both of them. The SE gives a lot more map, but the SW one gives a little - I know for sure because I was in that SW fort when my 99.9 finally rolled to 100.

And since the 100% map title in Tyria really isn't 100% of the complete, total possible map that someone might have ever been able to uncover ... what you *need* to explore isn't a fixed list. :/

Quote:

and as Licensed said, even if the bridge [one of the 2 bridges back in the bonus area] is up you can still walk in.

Yep ^^ You can not walk across raised bridges around the fort with the ghostly hero guys or any raised bridges earlier in the mission. You can walk across the 2 raised bridges back in the bonus area. I've always done it with friends and before NF. So I defer to people like Sir Mad that are more familiar with how it's done with henchies and/or heroes.

Apolgies for shameless self-promotion, but drupal, this guide I made originally to help friends get GMC titles might help explain better? Dunes is covered about halfway down the page. GL to ya on GMC!

Cheers,
Luny

Sir Mad · Dec 17, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Oh yes sorry about the east/west confusion - I've edited my last post to fix that.

Still I don't think you need to enter the SE fort to explore everything (however there is a huge part around the fort needing to be explored for GMC) - I never explored it and it's still uncovered from exploring around. And yes the SW fort adds a few 0.0xxx%: you can explore than what is on the map I posted earlier I believe - as Licensed said it's possible to get GMC without but it helps nevertheless.

Malibu Illusion · Dec 18, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

This definitely happens:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3701/gw343wd9.jpg

I didn't even notice either for a little while until I crossed into the fort. Maybe this is something to do with the hero flags? I remember seeing them only after I planted some flags to instruct my heroes where to go and whatnot.

Interesting!

Wobrak · Dec 20, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

I duplicated this bug/exploit also.

1. After using Necrotic Transversal to jump across the empty moot, flagged my heros/henchies to go back and kill the enemy ghost. The ghostly hero stayed near me at the south bridge.

2. After my heros/henchies dispatched the enemy ghost I canceled the flag. When they reached the south bridge, it was still up, they teleported across to join me.

The only common denominator between mine and Malibu's situation appear to be the use of flags to move the heros/henchies around the map before they are able to join you on the other side.

drupal · Dec 20, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

The same happened to me